It's A Habit That Sticks: June 2023

The Tap Room

The Tap Room was a popular feature on my old website, which now gets an occasional run out on here. Over the course of a week, I invite various fans to share their views on a topic connected to Thai football, until we have built up a lively debate. Here is our discussion from August, 2014:

Would a breakaway league be a good idea?

4th August, 2014

Reply #1

Name: Dominick Cartwright

Team supported: The Thai Port Authority, Thai Port F.C., Singhtarua and whatever we will be called next year.

A break away league for Thailand in the next two years has been referred to this week in response to the indefinite ban of Buriram's star player Carmelo Gonzalez, this ban is ridiculous. It's completely inconsistent with other penalties, Port player Lee Sang Ho got a 5 match ban for chasing after the ref and although I was unhappy with it and I thought 3 would have been more reasonable (long story) I could just about put up with 5. An indefinite ban is just designed to push Newin and Buriram into a corner trying to make them come cap in hand to the FAT. Say what you like about Newin he knows brinkmanship when he sees it and he has put the nuclear option on the table.

Newin is reminding the Thai FA that if it came down to more ridiculous decisions like this he could pick up his ball and leave bringing a lot of disgruntled teams with him. The big problem with the threat (and I don't believe it's an entirely idle threat) is much like nuclear warfare it leads to mutually assured destruction. Both parties need to realise how much they need each other and calm down a bit. FAT needs to decide on a number of games for the ban 3 would be reasonable 5/6 might be the number considering it has now become a political football not an governing body decision. Newin needs to realise he and his team are part of a league, rushing into opposing team's dressing rooms and threatening to break away are harming the very best place for his team to be the TPL.

What if there were a break away league? What would it look like? Who would go? Who would stay? As it stands the there is a significant gap between the top four Maungthong, Buriram, Chonburi and BEC Tero and the other TPL sides. Suphanburi, Chiang Rai and Bangkok Glass have the money and possibly the vision to take a step up to be that sort of top tier side. A Thai Super league what could it be? These 7 plus one or three others 8/10 teams playing each other 4 times a season? Possibly with no relegation? If everyone broke away it would just be the same thing and the whole exercise would seem pointless. If 14 or 16 teams are going why not just stay and negotiate for change collectively. If we had a league of ten or eight top teams it would be even more unrepresentative of Thailand. I can't think of any good scenarios for a breakaway league I can think of a million bad ones.

Love it or loathe it Fifa and the FAT need to be part of the Thai league. "Mu" the Thai Port supporters representative has also been running an Anti FAT Campaign, against corruption, crazy refereeing and insane fines. You would like to think when a hundred different voices are railing against them they might listen unfortunately I think we are at the start of a rocky process of slow change. This is frustrating and haphazard change but it is better than breaking away and blowing everything up.

Reply #2

Name: Russ

Team supported: Nakhon Ratchasima

Twitter: @russreport

Breakaway league – surely it has to happen.

Having been present in the 15 000 plus crowd at the Division 1 Nahkon Ratchasima v Roi Et game on 2nd August, then learning, with some embarrassment, that the Osotspa v Ratchaburi game was played in a seemingly empty stadium in front of 1400 fans on 3rd August, I feel it is time for radical changes in Thai football.

What is the raison d’etre of a football team with no fans? Sure they are used to meanlessly fill empty TV schedules but this is surely a path to meltdown.

My own opinion is that a team with a sound and potentially growing fan base is far more sustainable than persevering with fanless outfits. NRFC’s recent signing Lee Tuck cited the team’s large fan base as a reason for signing – players do not relish playing in front of fewer than 200 fans.

My idea of a new system would be this:

A new league consisting of teams that can regularly draw 5000 plus crowds. Teams such as Buriram and Nahkon Ratchasima who appeal to a province as a whole for their fan bases and who market their product well should be the template. This league would consist of teams such as Buriram, NRFC, Chonburi, Rayong, Chang Rai and Ratchaburi. Large conurbations such as Kon Kaen, Ubon, Udon and a team from the South should be encouraged to develop and market potential Premier league teams. A sustainable league of about 12 teams could be possible and TV friendly.

Oh, I was forgetting teams from Bangkok – let them form their own league and let them continue to play in empty stadiums simply for the delectation of their media savvy backers. MT United – tough – you reap what you sow!!!

Reply #3

Name: Paul Murphy

Team supported: Army Utd

Twitter: @PaulmurphyBKK

While it is a sad state of affairs when it is necessary to discuss a breakaway league, it is certainly good to have the discussion. Week after week, we have the same discussions about refereeing standards, arbitrary punishments and inconsistent fines. The TPL has no clear organisational structure in place that enables it to handle issues objectively and consistently. If the TPL is unable to implement a more accountable and transparent rationale for how it deals with disciplinary issues and poor refereeing, an alternative organisation appeals to the average fan.

Of course, no one knows if an alternative would be a step in the right direction and this is where it is important to be cautious. Newin does not have the trust of most fans in Thailand. As one of the big two, there is understandable suspicion that anything Buriram attempts to initiate is in their own interests. A breakway league requires funding, sponsorship, TV rights, etc. How long would it take to persuade existing members of the league and potential new ones to agree to gamble on a more uncertain future without the likes of Toyota and True Vision on board?

Whatever way you look at it, the status quo is unacceptable. The TPL has to get its act together and that means transparency, accountability and clearly standardised rules that are applied objectively. The chances of this happening overnight are slim. Much more developed football leagues still struggle to explain disciplinary decisions and, of course, the world’s governing body is a disgrace to the game. In a league that is still at a relatively young age, some problems are inevitable but the TPL is not moving quickly enough to rid itself of the stench of corruption and petty personal vendettas when they should be working for the good of the game.

It is still too early to be jumping on the breakaway bandwagon. It could potentially be a positive development and, in time, it may become a necessity. However, there is still an opportunity for the current malaise to be sorted if the threats are taken seriously by the TPL. Unfortunately, stubborn refusal to lose face may ensure that no compromise is forthcoming. Change is football organisations the world over can be notoriously slow but hopefully the breakaway threat may just have some impact.

Reply #4

Name: Malcolm Imray

Team supported: n/a

Twitter: @BKKFootballBlog

To be honest, I’m beyond caring about the playground squabbles that continually engulf Thai football. If Khun Newin, or any other club owner for that matter, wants to break away from the Thai Football league structure and form their own “Intergalactic Tiddlywinks” League, then so be it.

Regarding the Carmelo incident, I’d say it was on par with Lee Sang Ho’s bout of madness, so a similar 6 match ban would have maintained consistency. The only difference between the pair is that one was the action of a crazed psychopath while the other was a bout of feet stomping from a brat. I’ll let you decide which one is which.

Going back to the original question, if a breakaway league were to work, then all of the big boys would have to be singing from the same hymn sheet. As much as Buriram and Muangthong despise one another, they actually need to be in competition with each other. Just look at the Scottish League since Rangers were demoted to the lower rungs of Scottish football. The SPL has become an even bigger joke with only Celtic as serious title candidates. The fact that they are 1/66 on to win the title in 2015 highlights this.

In England, the top clubs formed their own premier league in 1992 to get away from the ‘stuffy old F**T’ regime. It’s debatable whether or not the game has improved as a spectacle for the fans. The players and clubs at the top have certainly reaped the financial rewards whereas many clubs at the lower end of the pyramid have struggled living on shoestring budgets.

There has been talk of an ASEAN Super League so that could be another option for teams that want to break away from the TPL. The problem with this is that I don’t think any of the other ASEAN clubs are a big draw for Thai fans; unless of course they started signing former Manchester United and Barcelona players like Rio Ferdinand or David Villa.

Reply#5

Name: Del Spafford

Team supported: Army United

Twitter: @DelSpaff

I am firmly in the no camp. A breakaway at this stage in the leagues development would not serve anyone's interests and I think Khun Newin is huffing and puffing and feeling (probably rightly) aggrieved at certain decisions that have gone against his club. To address the Carmelo incident I agree with Dominick that a ban similar to Lee Sang Ho would be fair and lets leave it at that.

I think the issue highlights and warrants debate at certain inconsistencies in the running of the league. To ensure a bright future clubs need to band together and work at ways in which to improve quality of officiating and performances. Improvement of attendances are also an issue but to suggest a league be created based on attendance figures only is a bit unfair.

I, like Paul, don't rule a breakaway out in the future but I believe there is hope in the TPL and want to see more time given to improve the running of the league. Who's to say a breakaway league would be plagued by the same problems and would therefore spawn a breakaway, breakaway league. In the end Buriram will be playing Buriram reserves and the coaches will be arguing with each other about the refereeing decisions there.

Reply: The Final Word

Name: Dominick Cartwright

Team supported: The Thai Port Authority, Thai Port F.C., Singhtarua and whatever we will be called next year.

Twitter: dominick@dominick_1975

Thanks to everyone for their contributions. I think this issue could become more and more relevant over the next three years especially if a group of clubs become disenchanted with the TPL's inconsistent decisions and decide to make plans for a possible breakaway league. Even if this is just a bargaining chip it might be what the FAT and TPL need to hear to scare them into concessions and more independent scrutiny. As Paul says a breakaway supported by Buriram would always encounter suspicion form other clubs fearing, "Buriram attempting to initiate something in their own interests."

I wish all Thai clubs were driven by a large passionate fan base. Unfortunately the random local politician playing the Abramovich role is the norm rather than the well supported club with a particular province or city really getting behind it. Nakorn Rachasima has been a massive exception in Thai Football for too long I'm glad to see one of the best supported teams in the country finally heading towards the TPL. Due to being driven by agencies or politicians some of the TPL gates are poor but Division 1 is plagued by even more plastic teams, Siracha looks like it will fade out of existence and might well only survive as "Siracha-Chonburi under 21s". BBCU still clings onto life like a terminally ill patient with a very expensive life support system.

As Malcolm said as much as Buriram and Muangthong despise one another, they actually need work with each other. Any breakaway that did contain both sides would be pointless. And any breakaway that contains both is looking very unlikely at the moment. With all the misgivings and possible problems of a breakaway league I think most people are still firmly with Del in the "No"Camp.

Thanks again Dale for all your work pulling all these opinions together.

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The Tap Room - Would A Breakaway League Be A Good Idea?: 2014