The Tap Room - Would A Breakaway League Be A Good Idea?: 2014

The Tap Room

The Tap Room was a popular feature on my old website, which now gets an occasional run out on here. Over the course of a week, I invite various fans to share their views on a topic connected to Thai football, until we have built up a lively debate. Here is our discussion from August, 2014:

Would a breakaway league be a good idea?

4th August, 2014

Reply #1

Name: Dominick Cartwright

Team supported: The Thai Port Authority, Thai Port F.C., Singhtarua and whatever we will be called next year. 

 

A break away league for Thailand in the next two years has been referred to this week in response to the indefinite ban of Buriram's star player Carmelo Gonzalez, this ban is ridiculous. It's completely inconsistent with other penalties, Port player Lee Sang Ho got a 5 match ban for chasing after the ref and although I was unhappy with it and I thought 3 would have been more reasonable (long story) I could just about put up with 5. An indefinite ban is just designed to push Newin and Buriram into a corner trying to make them come cap in hand to the FAT. Say what you like about Newin he knows brinkmanship when he sees it and he has put the nuclear option on the table.

Newin is reminding the Thai FA that if it came down to more ridiculous decisions like this he could pick up his ball and leave bringing a lot of disgruntled teams with him. The big problem with the threat (and I don't believe it's an entirely idle threat) is much like nuclear warfare it leads to mutually assured destruction. Both parties need to realise how much they need each other and calm down a bit. FAT needs to decide on a number of games for the ban 3 would be reasonable 5/6 might be the number considering it has now become a political football not an governing body decision. Newin needs to realise he and his team are part of a league, rushing into opposing team's dressing rooms and threatening to break away are harming the very best place for his team to be the TPL. 

What if there were a break away league? What would it look like? Who would go? Who would stay? As it stands the there is a significant gap between the top four Maungthong, Buriram, Chonburi and BEC Tero and the other TPL sides. Suphanburi, Chiang Rai and Bangkok Glass have the money and possibly the vision to take a step up to be that sort of top tier side.  A Thai Super league what could it be? These 7 plus one or three others 8/10 teams playing each other 4 times a season? Possibly with no relegation? If everyone broke away it would just be the same thing and the whole exercise would seem pointless. If 14 or 16 teams are going why not just stay and negotiate for change collectively. If we had a league of ten or eight top teams it would be even more unrepresentative of Thailand. I can't think of any good scenarios for a breakaway league I can think of a million bad ones. 

Love it or loathe it Fifa and the FAT need to be part of the Thai league. "Mu" the Thai Port supporters representative has also been running an Anti FAT Campaign,  against corruption, crazy refereeing and insane fines. You would like to think when a hundred different voices are railing against them they might listen unfortunately I think we are at the start of a rocky process of slow change. This is frustrating and haphazard change but it is better than breaking away and blowing everything up. 

 

 

Reply #2

Name: Russ

Team supported: Nakhon Ratchasima

Twitter: @russreport

 

Breakaway league – surely it has to happen.

 

Having been present in the 15 000 plus crowd at the Division 1 Nahkon Ratchasima v Roi Et game on 2nd August, then learning, with some embarrassment, that the  Osotspa v Ratchaburi game was played in a seemingly empty stadium in front of 1400 fans on 3rd August, I feel it is time for radical changes in Thai football.

What is the raison d’etre of a football team with no fans? Sure they are used to meanlessly fill empty TV schedules but this is surely a path to meltdown.

 

My own opinion is that a team with a sound and potentially growing fan base is far more sustainable than persevering with fanless outfits. NRFC’s recent signing Lee Tuck cited the team’s large fan base as a reason for signing – players do not relish playing in front of fewer than 200 fans.

 

My idea of a new system would be this:

 

A new league consisting of teams that can regularly draw 5000 plus crowds. Teams such as Buriram and Nahkon Ratchasima who appeal to a province as a whole for their fan bases and who market their product well should be the template. This league would consist of teams such as Buriram, NRFC, Chonburi, Rayong, Chang Rai and Ratchaburi. Large conurbations such as Kon Kaen, Ubon, Udon and a team from the South should be encouraged to develop and market potential Premier league teams. A sustainable league of about 12 teams could be possible and TV friendly.

 

Oh, I was forgetting teams from Bangkok – let them form their own league and let them continue to play in empty stadiums simply for the delectation of their media savvy backers. MT United – tough – you reap what you sow!!!

 

 

Reply #3

Name: Paul Murphy

Team supported: Army Utd

Twitter: @PaulmurphyBKK

 

While it is a sad state of affairs when it is necessary to discuss a breakaway league, it is certainly good to have the discussion. Week after week, we have the same discussions about refereeing standards, arbitrary punishments and inconsistent fines. The TPL has no clear organisational structure in place that enables it to handle issues objectively and consistently. If the TPL is unable to implement a more accountable and transparent rationale for how it deals with disciplinary issues and poor refereeing, an alternative organisation appeals to the average fan.

 

Of course, no one knows if an alternative would be a step in the right direction and this is where it is important to be cautious. Newin does not have the trust of most fans in Thailand. As one of the big two, there is understandable suspicion that anything Buriram attempts to initiate is in their own interests. A breakway league requires funding, sponsorship, TV rights, etc. How long would it take to persuade existing members of the league and potential new ones to agree to gamble on a more uncertain future without the likes of Toyota and True Vision on board?

 

Whatever way you look at it, the status quo is unacceptable. The TPL has to get its act together and that means transparency, accountability and clearly standardised rules that are applied objectively. The chances of this happening overnight are slim. Much more developed football leagues still struggle to explain disciplinary decisions and, of course, the world’s governing body is a disgrace to the game. In a league that is still at a relatively young age, some problems are inevitable but the TPL is not moving quickly enough to rid itself of the stench of corruption and petty personal vendettas when they should be working for the good of the game.

 

It is still too early to be jumping on the breakaway bandwagon. It could potentially be a positive development and, in time, it may become a necessity. However, there is still an opportunity for the current malaise to be sorted if the threats are taken seriously by the TPL. Unfortunately, stubborn refusal to lose face may ensure that no compromise is forthcoming. Change is football organisations the world over can be notoriously slow but hopefully the breakaway threat may just have some impact.

 

 

 

Reply #4

Name: Malcolm Imray

Team supported: n/a

Twitter: @BKKFootballBlog

 

To be honest, I’m beyond caring about the playground squabbles that continually engulf Thai football. If Khun Newin, or any other club owner for that matter, wants to break away from the Thai Football league structure and form their own “Intergalactic Tiddlywinks” League, then so be it.

 

Regarding the Carmelo incident, I’d say it was on par with Lee Sang Ho’s bout of madness, so a similar 6 match ban would have maintained consistency. The only difference between the pair is that one was the action of a crazed psychopath while the other was a bout of feet stomping from a brat. I’ll let you decide which one is which.

 

Going back to the original question, if a breakaway league were to work, then all of the big boys would have to be singing from the same hymn sheet. As much as Buriram and Muangthong despise one another, they actually need to be in competition with each other. Just look at the Scottish League since Rangers were demoted to the lower rungs of Scottish football. The SPL has become an even bigger joke with only Celtic as serious title candidates. The fact that they are 1/66 on to win the title in 2015 highlights this.

 

In England, the top clubs formed their own premier league in 1992 to get away from the ‘stuffy old F**T’ regime. It’s debatable whether or not the game has improved as a spectacle for the fans. The players and clubs at the top have certainly reaped the financial rewards whereas many clubs at the lower end of the pyramid have struggled living on shoestring budgets.

 

There has been talk of an ASEAN Super League so that could be another option for teams that want to break away from the TPL. The problem with this is that I don’t think any of the other ASEAN clubs are a big draw for Thai fans; unless of course they started signing former Manchester United and Barcelona players like Rio Ferdinand or David Villa.  

 

 

Reply#5

Name: Del Spafford

Team supported: Army United

Twitter: @DelSpaff

 

I am firmly in the no camp. A breakaway at this stage in the leagues development would not serve anyone's interests and I think Khun Newin is huffing and puffing and feeling (probably rightly) aggrieved at certain decisions that have gone against his club. To address the Carmelo incident I agree with Dominick that a ban similar to Lee Sang Ho would be fair and lets leave it at that.

 

I think the issue highlights and warrants debate at certain inconsistencies in the running of the league. To ensure a bright future clubs need to band together and work at ways in which to improve quality of officiating and performances. Improvement of attendances are also an issue but to suggest a league be created based on attendance figures only is a bit unfair.

 

I, like Paul, don't rule a breakaway out in the future but I believe there is hope in the TPL and want to see more time given to improve the running of the league. Who's to say a breakaway league would be plagued by the same problems and would therefore spawn a breakaway, breakaway league. In the end Buriram will be playing Buriram reserves and the coaches will be arguing with each other about the refereeing decisions there.

 

 

Reply: The Final Word

Name: Dominick Cartwright

Team supported: The Thai Port Authority, Thai Port F.C., Singhtarua and whatever we will be called next year. 

Twitter: dominick@dominick_1975 

 

Thanks to everyone for their contributions. I think this issue could become more and more relevant over the next three years especially if a group of clubs become disenchanted with the TPL's inconsistent decisions and decide to make plans for a possible breakaway league. Even if this is just a bargaining chip it might be what the FAT and TPL need to hear to scare them into concessions and more independent scrutiny. As Paul says a breakaway supported by Buriram would always encounter suspicion form other clubs fearing, "Buriram attempting to initiate something in their own interests."

I wish all Thai clubs were driven by a large passionate fan base. Unfortunately the random local politician playing the Abramovich role is the norm rather than the well supported club with a particular province or city really getting behind it. Nakorn Rachasima has been a massive exception in Thai Football for too long I'm glad to see one of the best supported teams in the country finally heading towards the TPL. Due to being driven by agencies or politicians some of the TPL gates are poor but Division 1 is plagued by even more plastic teams, Siracha looks like it will fade out of existence and might well only survive as "Siracha-Chonburi under 21s". BBCU still clings onto life like a terminally ill patient with a very expensive life support system. 

As Malcolm said as much as Buriram and Muangthong despise one another, they actually need work with each other.  Any breakaway that did contain both sides would be pointless. And any breakaway that contains both is looking very unlikely at the moment. With all the misgivings and possible problems of a breakaway league I think most people are still firmly with Del in the "No"Camp. 

Thanks again Dale for all your work pulling all these opinions together.

NEW!! The Tap Room: 2021

 The Tap Room: January, 2021

The Tap Room was a popular feature on my old website, which now gets an occasional run out on here. Over the course of a week, I invite various fans to share their views on a topic connected to Thai football, until we have built up a lively debate. Here is our latest discussion:

Let's settle this once and for all, what level of the English league does Thai football compare with?

Reply #1

Name: Phil Williams

Team supported: Samut Prakan City

Twitter: @Ajarncom

I find it one of the most fascinating hypothetical questions about Thai football, namely ‘The Thai Premier League is roughly on a par with what level of English football?’ Exactly how good (or bad) is it? 

Just for clarification, when we talk about the levels of English football, we’re considering the 20 levels of the English football league pyramid, from the Manchester Citys and the Liverpools of the Premier League all the way down to the bottom rungs and the likes of the Bournemouth Saturday League, where undoubtedly a hungover rabble of delivery drivers, bricklayers and carpet fitters play for a modest match fee but mostly for the love of the game.

In the UK, I was something of a lower division and non-league football anorak. Colchester United have always been my ‘little team’ (it’s a long story) and I’ve seen them play plenty of times in the third and fourth divisions as well as watching Walsall Town Football Club, whose old Fellows Park Ground was just a short train ride from where I lived in Birmingham.

In the early 90’s Colchester were disastrously relegated from the football league into what was then the GM Vauxhall Conference (Level 5 of the pyramid) They were promoted back to the football league at the second attempt but I did get the opportunity to watch many games at that level at places as diverse as Telford, Kettering, Merthyr Tydfil and Runcorn.

To go even deeper into the English league system, I’ve seen a number of games at Coles Lane, the home of Sutton Coldfield FC (a suburb of Birmingham) They are currently level 8 of the pyramid and play in the Evostik something or other. 

Sorry that’s a bit of a long-winded introduction but I just wanted to establish my credentials. I’ve done my fair share of football grounds with sloping pitches, crackly tannoys and doddery turnstile operators who have been there 50 years but still can’t work out the change from a twenty pound note.

So where would the Thai Premier League fit in to that lot?

I’ve caught bits of discussions on this topic before and I seem to recall many folk saying you can’t compare the two countries because you have to take into consideration the heat, the humidity, the state of the playing surfaces, the weight of the ball, etc (I may have made that last one up) but I don’t buy into that at all. When you put eleven players up against eleven players, generally the best eleven will win, regardless of the conditions. OK, the heat and humidity might tip the scales in the Thai teams favour but not by all that much methinks. If you can do it on a wet Tuesday night in Merthyr Tydfil, you can do it on a balmy night at Muangthong. 

You’ve only got to browse Wikipedia and look at the playing careers to date of the foreign stars who grace the T1. Players the world over soon find their level, be it the Japanese third division, the Brazilian second tier or a handful of games for Swindon Town, before being told to sling their hook. And that’s where the majority of those foreign stars have come from – and yet they still mostly manage to shine for their relative Thai clubs. 

I said early last season (when I was still relatively new to watching Thai football) that I felt the T1 was on a par with the Vauxhall Conference (now called the National League) – which to reiterate, is level 5 of the English league system – and my opinion hasn’t changed. So in a handful of hypothetical match-ups, we might have; 

Stockport County v Trat FC

Notts County v Prachuap

Hartlepool v Police Tero 

Bloody hell, I wouldn’t have a clue where to put my gambling money!

Reply #2

Name: Russ John

Team supported: Nakorn Ratchasima FC

Twitter: @russreport

Oh crikey, good question Phil. I'm afraid my knowledge of lower tier football in England is poor - Wolves only sank to the fourth division and I haven't watched any live football in England for 20 years.

I think this question should be aimed at tactical aficionados but I, as a mere fan, will have a go.

The pace within the TPL is pretty slow and tactical awareness among Thai players seems limited, presumably caused by lack of good coaching from an early age. Physically most TPL players would be massacred by the hard running and strength of a typical English "bite yer legs" mentality.

I have always believed that Thais will always struggle in sports because of their “Mai pen rai” cultural upbringing. Thai footballer’s nice, non confrontational, approach would leave most terribly exposed to the cut and thrust, win at all costs, attitude prevailing within the English football pyramid.

So to the question; I think that the professionalism of the Buriram side of a couple of years ago would enable them to survive in England's third tier but most "ordinary" TPL teams would, as Phil suggests, probably be able to mix it with 'non league'" as was, fifth tier teams.

I'm not sure that climate or fitness are the major determinants in this argument, I suggest that physical size and lack of a real cut throat mentality would ultimately be the real reasons why Thai players would not cope with a full rumbustious season within the English leagues.

Not forgetting of course that TPL teams could possibly field 5 non Thais. Although most of these imports improve the standards. I am assuming that if these players had skills commensurate with those of players in, for example, lower European leagues they would be snapped up by those leagues and not end up plying their trades in the TPL, so no real impact on the argument.

So, around tier 5 it is and this is in no way meant to demean the standards in the TPL, after all, “it doesn’t have to be good to be enjoyable”!!

Footnote; Having watched Chorley, who currently compete in the National League North, the sixth tier of English football, dispatch Derby County in the FA Cup, I, as a Wolves supporter might ask, would I rather face Chorley or an average TPL team, let’s say Suphanburi, in the next round of the FA Cup? 

Well the answer would be – Suphan every time!!! 

Can I change my mind, most TPL teams would struggle in the English tier 6 or 7 leagues I’m afraid!!

Reply #3

Name: Jamie Pinder

Team supported: Buriram Utd

Twitter: @nangrongifo

So this is a discussion we’ve had many times over the last few years. The reality of course is that the average Thai team in the top league is probably a match for a top quality amateur English team or old fourth division maybe but then you have to look at the top teams that we’ve had over the last 10 years such as my team, Buriram United, and the great team they had which was unbeatable.

That team, supplemented by half a dozen or less players from the UK would have fared pretty well I imagine. If you could’ve added the right players in the right positions such as an extra fullback, a strong central defender, and a creative midfield player, then they would’ve maybe gone as high as the old third division. You need to remember that in that team there were players who had played Champions League football, who had played in good Brazilian leagues, and who were good international players within the region. I think sometimes we underestimate the quality of some of our players and add them to a team with a bit of quality and they would improve.

Some of our players have gone to play abroad such as Osmar Ibanez who won the Asian champions league while at FC Seoul. Usually players who get to play with better players improve themselves and I think if Thai players had the opportunity then they would also improve not just their skills but their strength and their tactical ability. It’s been shown by the players who moved forward that they can improve greatly.

One or two or even three of the current side here are rumored to be going to the UK to train with a top Premier League side and it’s very possible that one of them could stay in the England and be the first Thai player to play in the EPL.

But, when all is said and done, in my opinion, the average Thai League side is not much above nonleague standard and may just about get promoted to the main leagues but would struggle to stay there more than one or two seasons.

I’ve said once or twice that it would be fabulous if the Thai FA could make use of a short break in January and invite one or two top European teams to do their preseason training in Thailand and take part in a local four team competition when the Europeans are on their one-month winter break. It would be great for the fans and fun for the European teams to come here rather than doing the annual trips to Dubai in the Middle East.

Reply #4

Name: Richard Keyworth

Team supported: Chiang Mai FC

Twitter: @thaimiller2019

In the 11 seasons I’ve been supporting Chiang Mai  FC and the 9 seasons Ive been doing the CMFC English Fanzine this is certainly the most asked question from both friends back home and also new expats and tourist that come to watch CMFC for the first time.

My view on this has changed quite a few times over the years and although I don’t really have much experience with the top league in both Thailand where CMFC flirted briefly with it last season but found it very difficult with Chiang Rai Utd as a parent club pulling the strings and also in the UK where I supported Rotherham United since a kid, including 5 seasons from 1998 to 2003 where I never missed a game home or away before moving to Thailand, these included back to back promotions from fourth to third to second but never into the promised land. So I’m really going to concentrate more on the teams and divisions I know better.

When I first started watching CMFC they were the big team in the North regional league where they would go around spanking teams like Tak, Lampang, Nakhon Sawan four, five, six nil etc and I thought at this stage that the standard was pretty good and they could possibly make or hold their own in the fourth tier in England, but as they moved up to a national league in 2011 and the money was a bit tighter and teams around them a bit stronger I realized that this was a pipe dream and they probably wouldn’t be good enough for the conference back home.

My first taste of the top league in Thailand was Muang Thong Vs BEC Tero around 2012 and I didn’t get what I was expecting, I thought it would be a lot better standard of football than it was from supposedly two of the giants of Thai football at the time. So again I thought where would these 2 be in The Uk league tier and I probably though lower 4th division at best.

Then after attending games of Zico’s golden generation at the national team level from 2014 until 2018 WC qualifiers I changed my mind again as some of those players would certainly make teams in the 1st and 2nd division in the UK right? I told anyone that would listen in the UK about Chanathip and Theerathon who have both gone on to be successful in pastures new but would they have made it in the lower leagues in the UK with being so slight framed, especially the little man?

The one game I really thought that Thai football would be competitive in the UK leagues was Buriram Vs Muang Thong in probably 2018 and it was an high scoring game maybe 3-2 and both teams played flat out and I would have put that into the second tier of Uk football, but games like that don’t happen every week and although I don’t watch the TPL every week when I do I am never that impressed much with the standard apart from the odd game and team.

So my answer to the question is probably I don’t know where the top teams would fit in the UK, I would say certain players including a lot of the younger ones coming through could make lower league teams, I doubt any player would make the EPL yet and for me certainly no Thai club would be good enough even for the third tier in the UK. Buriram  (usually) and this year BG would probably hold their own in the fourth tier, with the rest somewhere between the conference and tier 7 and unfortunately I would put Chiang Mai in the lower category.

Reply #5

Name: Steve Darby

Former Thailand national team coach

Twitter: @darbystevecoach

This is a complex question. If you were play a 10 game season, then I think the Thais could hold their own at a high level, but a 38 game season, over a filthy winter, and mental strength comes in to it. The reality is, that to survive you have to be a good specimen. I think a good 2010 Chonburi team could have survived a 15 game English Championship season.

As for individuals, Bryan Robson and Peter Reid, both far better qualified than me, felt two players - Teerasil Dangda and Kawin Thamsatachanan - could have handled lower English Premier League and about 5 more - Suree Sukha, Surat Sukha, Nattaporn Phanrit, Nattapong Samana and Panupong Wongsa - could've handled the English Championship. As you can see, all good physical specimens

Put one Thai in a good team and they could have succeeded, eg Sutee Suksomkit. I sent him to Chelsea, they wanted to sign him and loan him to Brentford for a year to adapt. Which I think he would have done. He - along with Surat - had the mental strength, which is so important.

Chanathip? I dont know, as I never coached him, but my gut feeling is that he would struggle physically. Datsakorn would have struggled physically. Nattapong wouldnt have cared! Just smiled.

Reply #6

Name: James Clarke

Team supported: Port FC

Twitter: @ValderramasHair

One of the major stumbling blocks in answer to the question is that the gap between the top and bottom of the TPL is far greater than to fit one tier of the English set up (or even two).  Something which also serves to hold the better Thai teams back, if a fair percentage of your games played against teams considerably worse than you, then it allows sloppiness to sneak in. 

Having read the previous replies, I think I'd have the top of the division slightly higher than other contributors, with the top teams living comfortably in League One (some individuals would cut it in the championship), while the bottom would struggle against my local side, St Albans City, in the English sixth tier. 

 

I agree with Steve that the winter would be a major barrier to Thai success. The temperature has dropped into the upper teens here and the Thais around me have taken to wearing jumpers and the odd coat. So it's hard to imagine many would be up for classic wet Wednesday at your lower league hellhole of choice. 

However, I take the opposite view to him over the effect of a full season. The better players and teams adapt to the circumstances they find themselves in, and learn to deal with the challenges presented. 5 or 10 games might not be enough for that process to take place, but come the back end of a full season, some would have got on top of the new issues confronting them. 

I suspect it might not be the most obvious contenders (both individually and as clubs), rather those who work hard, are adaptable and have a willingness to learn. Numerous players who are considered a success in Thailand wouldn’t cut it, while other less-heralded players possessing those traits, would be more than able to make it in England. For example, at Port, Nitipong might not be the biggest star but he has those attributes by the bucketload and would be someone I'd expect to transition easily. 

Theerathon’s time in the J League also highlights this. I doubt many predicted when he first went to Japan that he would go on to win a title and build his reputation to such an extent that he is considered amongst the best fullbacks in Japan and even made the International Federation of Football History and Statistics (IFFHS) Asian team of 2020. 

Russ mentions the lack of “bite yer legs” players in Thailand and it’s a fair point. They are lacking and something I miss about the English lower leagues. That’s not to say they don’t exist. When I first arrived in Thailand, I always enjoyed seeing Adrul’s combative performances. 

But too many of the current crop of Thai central midfielders are lightweight, flat-track bullies, who would be overrun in the battle of the English game, before they’d even made the decision that they didn’t fancy it. The current Port top two, Sarach and Siwakorn would be prime examples. While I’d expect their midfield partners, Thitipan and Go, would have a great time in England. 

So I’ll conclude as I started, by saying there isn’t a simple answer, but it would be interesting to see how it played out.

Reply #7

Name: Rob Bernard

Groundhopper

Twitter: @Rob_Bernard

Haha, this is a question that often comes up when I return home after trips and chat to mates

when I’ve watched football outside England.

It’s a conundrum that I find slightly easier to assess if I’ve been watching whatever level in

say Germany, Austria or Scotland as the climate is very similar, which in turn sees a similar

tempo of play. Incidentally, I do attend anything from the top professional division right down

to amateur non-league wherever I go.

As for countries in hotter humid climates such as Thailand. Now that isn’t so easy.

If I had to throw a guess out there, I’d probably say National League or League Two would

be comparable to Thai League 1 which seems the general consensus.

How would say a Stevenage fare away to Buriram on a hot Tuesday night in November?

Either of those clubs would adapt in in the opposite’s country after a while, whether it was

tactics, fitness or pace. One big difference I do find is the standard of the goalkeeping. 

I wonder if people in Singapore make jokes about Thai keepers in the way the English would

about the Scots when I was growing up? I’ve seen some very dodgy performances with a

theatrical claim of injury after a howler. All part of the entertainment mind.

I think a huge deciding factor would be money. I’m sad to say that it matters too much in the

modern game. How would a League Two club go on with the same income as in Thailand? I

say this with the old how would Celtic and Rangers get on the Premier League, every time a

sports shock jock needs to fill in an hour. They’d struggle to start with until they started

getting the same TV money.

Back to Thai against English football, I often relate to Baz Savage. Baz was a steady away

lower league journeyman in England, without not being quite good enough to go any higher.

Yet he was the stand out performer at TOT on the couple of matches I saw him.

I was lucky enough to get a chat with him when with Dale at a Chonburi game. He told us his

agent could get him a six month deal at Accrington or two years at TOT, which I found an

eye opener and a bit of a surprise that others don’t venture across. Maybe they’d miss the

pies?

So, I use Baz as my barometer. Though there are obviously there are better and worse

players than when he was playing in the lower league’s here and in the top Thai league. And

standards may have got better or worse in both countries since then?

As for some of the T3 and T4 I’ve been to over the years. I honestly think I played in as high

a level in local football back home as one or two distractions to the day out that I’ve

attended. Although I didn’t have to run around in ridiculous temperatures. Indeed, some

would say I didn’t in cold weather either!

As you can probably detect, I think it’s a very complex discussion and one we’d never really

get an answer to unless we managed to cobble together an amalgamated division with

salary caps in somewhere such as Italy with a climate midway between the two countries

with a referee from somewhere neutral.

There’s one thing for sure. I can’t wait to escape the UK and carry out further research,

whether it’s right down to Thai amateur football. There is nothing like travel, adventure and

football.

Reply #8

Name: Mika Chunuonsee

Bangkok Utd player

Twitter: @Chunuonsee16

“What's the standard like in Thailand compared to the league back in the UK? Would it be League 1?"

That's probably the question I get asked the most from my mates, and also other players, back in UK. Having read all the previous replies in this discussion, I would have to say I agree with most of the guys' opinions and analysis of the league here. Even though football is the same game all around the world, you can't compare the level in Thailand to anything over in the UK. Indeed, most of us can't even agree on where Celtic and Rangers would be if they joined the English league.

But my opinion and thoughts on this are simple; the Thailand national team can maybe play in the Championship and the top 5 teams in Thai league, can play League 1, and they would be OK.  People will say “no chance”, “not physically strong enough”, and “the Thai league is too sloppy”, but having played international football, believe me, Thai league teams will do better against Championship teams than they would against League 2 teams. Why? That's because the higher you play, the more technical the game is, and Thai players are probably the most technically gifted players I've played with.

Additionally, with sports science and technology being introduced to our game over the past few years, Thai players are stronger and also more professional, with the nutrition and diet, so the league is definitely more professional now than when I first came 10 years ago. Back then, I would have said to you non-league standard, without hesitation.

If you remember a few years ago when Reading played Thailand U23s, some of the Reading players I knew back then, told me the technical ability of the Thai players was unbelievable, and these players could definitely play back in the UK.

In conclusion, I think the best way to compare is probably by watching Thailand v Australia, or Thai teams against A League clubs, because Australian football is similar to the English game. Over the last few years we have definitely held our own and done well against them, at both club and country level. So, like I said, it's all opinions, but all I can say is the league is getting better. 

The Final Word

Name: Phil Williams

Team supported: Samut Prakan City

Twitter: @Ajarncom

Thanks to everyone who contributed to an interesting discussion. I think most were in agreement that Thai football is about on a par with the English National League (level 5 or level 6 of the English league pyramid).

The contributions towards the end from Steve and Mika were probably the most crucial to the discussion because it's difficult to argue against someone who has actually played or coached the game professionally. 

So basically we need to organize a two-legged play-off between the top of the Thai league and the top of the National League and test out our theory. So BG Pathum v Torquay United it is.

NEW!! The Tap Room: 2021

The Tap Room: January, 2021

The Tap Room was a popular feature on my old website, which now gets an occasional run out on here. Over the course of a week, I invite various fans to share their views on a topic that is in the news, until we have built up a lively debate. Here is our latest discussion:

What are you views on the latest Thai league postponements and the management's handling of the situation?

Reply #1: 4th January, 2021

Name: Phil Williams

Team supported: Samut Prakan City

Twitter: @Ajarncom

I was so looking forward to January. Six games in 21 days including a trip to Rayong FC (a stadium I’ve not been to) and a midweek FA Cup tie away at Muangthong United. Now it’s a case of keeping fingers crossed and hoping I’ll get to see the games at some stage in the future.

As the covid situation worsened here over Christmas and the New Year, the Thai FA seemed to be going in the direction of playing games behind closed doors and we already had a taste of that with last week’s fixtures. Before today’s FA meeting, I was all in favour of closed door games because Samut Prakan are in sparkling form at the moment and it would be a shame to lose the momentum. 

It’s also fair to say I’ve got used to watching Premier League games in empty stadiums, but whereas, let's say, Leeds at home to Manchester United loses virtually all of its appeal with no fans allowed in, the same can’t be said of Bangkok United at home to Trat or Suphanburi against Prachuab. There’s not that much difference in atmosphere between 4,000 fans rattling around in a great big stadium and no one there at all. Not all that much is lost. Do the players in the Thai teams feel it affects their performance to not have fans cheering and motivating them? It certainly didn’t do Samut Prakan any harm against Port last week.

Now the suits at the Thai FA have had their meeting and decided, predictably, to press the pause button on the season for January at least, and hopefully we’ll resume again in February. Frankly, when I heard the news, I wasn’t disappointed. But we’ve been here before haven’t we? How long did we have to wait last year until we got the all-clear to start playing football matches again? Six months? That was such an agonizingly long wait.

An optimist would say it won’t be a six-month break this time around but I can see the covid situation in Thailand getting worse before it gets better. I’d be overjoyed with the break being just a month long but I can’t see it. More likely two or three.

Football journalist Paul Murphy tweeted earlier today - “Thailand still can’t strike a balance between managing risk and getting on with life despite protocols being in place. Leagues all over the world carrying on but the answer here is to shut things down”

I do agree that the government here seem far too cautious, and the Thai FA are merely toeing the line, but whatever decision they made would’ve been unpopular in some quarters.

I’m trying to stay positive. I managed to survive six months without Thai football last year, I’m sure I can manage another month or two this time around.

Reply #2: 5th January, 2021

Name: Russ John

Team supported: Nakhon Ratchasima 

Twitter: @russreport

I, like most other Thai football fans, share Phil’s frustration at the announcement. This decision I’m afraid was made inevitable given the recent rise in corona virus infections. One can only hope that the ban on matches only lasts one month however the current situation bears uncanny resemblance to last year’s situation with promises of an early resumption, I suspect that the ban will continue into February, March and beyond.

Looking around the globe, one sees that other countries have managed to continue playing with innovative methods and forward planning. Talk of bubbles and games being played behind locked doors in Thailand is being banded around and is laudable, however it won't happen, as this would require some proactive preplanning from the FAT - enough said!!! 

My main fears concerning the break are twofold. First the financial implications: Many clubs, who surely must be just clinging on financially, now may be at breaking point exacerbated by a potentially long break. Lack of income from gate receipts coupled with the inevitable lack of interest from sponsors must be leaving club’s coffers pretty low. My second concern is that another break will have an adverse effect on attendances. 

I have to admit that during the last break, my own personal interest and enthusiasm waned and although I have not studied relative attendance figures throughout the league, anecdotally at Korat games, which in past seasons would have attracted 11 or 12 thousand fans, now struggle to attract 4 thousand die hard supporters. 

The oft used adage 'out of sight out of mind" springs to mind, the game is quietly hemorrhaging fans and I suspect that fans once lost will not return. In conclusion, fingers crossed but the chances of a resumption in February are for me 2/10, my hopes for future successful completed season - a meagre 6/10!!    

Reply #3: 6th January, 2021

Name: Grant Aitken

Team supported: Muang Thong Utd

Twitter: @GrantMTU86

I share Phil and Russ’s disappointment at the suspension of the season, and similarly, their pessimism that the season will resume again after a month’s break. 

The key difference this time around was the sense of formality when restrictions were put into place by the government. The lack of support for the local game means there is little chance they would make the Thai League an exception to the rule. Once the first swimming pool and Muay Thai arenas had to shut up shop, we knew our days were numbered. 

The prospect of continuing the league with players isolated within their own bubble and shepherded into some random city seems unlikely, especially with certain provinces trying to impose 14 day quarantines to cross borders. 

Furthermore, I don’t think it’s fair to put that strain on the players either. The majority are not cash rich millionaires, the staff members even less so. I don’t see why they should suffer away from their families for our enjoyment. 

There isn’t the budget form 87.5% of the clubs to fund such a grand operation, not right now. The FA have already cut costs at grassroots level to keep the league going, I’d dread to think what would be next. 

We had a good run, enjoying a COVOIDless existence whilst the rest of the world looked on in envy. I can’t blame the government for trying to get that back. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. 

I don’t expect to see Thai football back in February, but I’ll not be looking for anybody to attribute guilt towards in the meantime either. It’s out of the FA’s hands. 

We’ll have to wait with bated breath for the next 2 weeks to see if cases go down but I don’t hold out much hope their either. To be quite honest the whole season is tainted. Time to put on a brave face, endure what is left of it and look forward to a time when we can put this mess behind us. I just hope all the club’s struggling for income right now can be there to see it.

Reply #4: 7th January, 2021

Name: Gian Chansrichawla

Website: www.thaileaguecentral.com

Twitter: @GianChansricha1

I largely agree with what Grant said about how a break is virtually necessary at this point. If provinces are setting up quarantines to stop the spread of the virus, players should not be exempt from it because they are not being tested frequently enough and are in nothing resembling a ‘quarantine bubble.’ I am still undecided on whether the Thai League should use this month off to try and develop that sort of system; Grant makes good points against it but it may be the only way out if the situation continues to worsen. 

I also agree with Russ’ point about attendances potentially falling and club finances taking another hit from this break. However, I would like to point out that it *seems like* some clubs opted for this break instead of playing games behind closed doors. For them, I guess it was a question of lost match day income versus delayed match day income, as playing behind closed doors also represents a significant financial loss. Another thing to remember about finances is that so few clubs actually even attempt to break even; the level of spending in the Thai League is often not dependent on how much money the clubs take in, but rather the overall health of the broader economy and the willingness of club owners to spend more of their own cash. 

My issue isn’t so much the fact that the league has been postponed, but more so the lack of a contingency plan and exit strategy if the situation continues to worsen. The FAT rightly pointed out that since the league was originally slated to end in March, there is plenty of time to play out the rest of the season before next campaign begins in September. However, that is little consolation as another long spell of multiple months without football would be incredibly damaging. 

I have to admit that I have lost some confidence after witnessing what has happened with T3, which was called to an abrupt end and teams were quickly funnelled into the ‘champions league’ round (promotion playoffs). It is a decision that is very unfair to the teams that narrowly missed out on qualification, and effectively means that most T3 clubs won’t play competitive football until September. This is also a major hit to the young players on loan in that division from T1 clubs seeking regular first-team football - combine that with issues and stoppages in the youth league, and COVID could have a major impact on an generation of young footballers if things don’t change soon. 

Right now, as has already been said, all we can do is wait and hope the situation doesn’t worsen.

Reply #5: 8th January, 2021

Name: Alec Peeples

Team supported: Chiang Rai Utd

Twitter: @abroadwithalec

My first reaction was total disappointment. After so long without Chiang Rai football I was excited for January - especially the kickoff with Port. We had matches regularly lined up, we had our new signing who looked sharp, and couldn't have been more optimistic... then the news came.

It's just complete nonsense!

This 'new wave' was always going to happen, how did they have no contingency plan in place? I understand the points made by everyone else, and agree that an immediate break of ~2 weeks was needed, but why a month? Test the players and staff and carry on. If the English Premier League can carry on with 50,000+ covid cases per day, why can't we find a way to carry on with ~500? For me, a closed-door match is far better than a postponement. I've been without Chiang Rai football for so long (due to the post-ACL quarantine) I was ready to watch them play in a hermetically sealed bubble in the mountains of Bueng Kan if necessary.

Players and staff can be held to a professional standard of self-quarantining as much as possible. This leaves travel as the only question mark. How can teams move from province to province? Private flights are out of the question, but with some creative scheduling, I believe you can have teams limit their travel and play 'clusters' of teams together. I.e. Chiang Rai travels to Bangkok and plays all the Bangkok-area squads over the course of a couple of weeks.  I think Russ hit the nail on the head - there are a few seemingly easy answers and solutions that allow the league to continue but the planning required for this seems to be a big ask of the FAT.

I'll also echo Russ' sentiment of worry over the wellbeing of the clubs (and the league as a whole). With the big broadcast change just happening, plus several clubs losing sponsors during the first shutdown, I wonder what state the clubs and owners are in at the end of a transfer window with this sudden and unexpected loss. Furthermore, it is going to be tough to gauge how much interest will remain after yet another shutdown. I am sure many of the diehards will still be there. The drumbeaters and the drinkers. But what about the fairweather fans? How fast will they return after yet another extended break? Maybe there won't be much of a change in enthusiasm, but I am always one for pessimism.

I'm glad Gian mentioned the impact on youth and development. Shutting down T3 so abruptly was painful. My brother-in-law had just won over the starting keeper spot at a T3 club by taking them from the bottom of the middle to a few straight wins and steadily climbing. He, and many other young players, were gutted to have their season taken away like this. How will the T3 clubs that didn't get into the promotion spots carry on? What of the players that are expecting salaries? These clubs already existed in fairly precarious positions, and I hope the best for all of them.

Reply #6: 9th January, 2021

Name: Jamie Pinder

Team supported: Buriram Utd

Twitter: @nangronginfo

As you and I know the start and stop nature of the league is nothing new. But in this case it was something that could and should have been planned for. A long time ago when I was studying for business we did a project on crisis management and how any good company prepares for a crisis. Last year we had the start of the pandemic and we saw how the Thai football Association handled it. Then,it was inevitable that games would stop and once we re-started with no fans, a few fans, getting back to half capacity, action should have been taken to prepare in the case of a new wave coming. It’s absolutely appalling nothing nothing was done, as far as we know, and nobody thought about a possible future scenario.

I fully understand that health comes first and player a safety should be part of the plan but if other countries can do it why can’t we?

You all know where my loyalties stand and I’ve stated it a few times that a club such as ours could quite easily host a month of the season in the same way that the NBA moved to Orlando at the end of last year. We have plenty of hotels, plenty of training pictures, and two Premier league standard football pictures where games could be played out on a daily basis and we wouldn’t get behind the schedule. Players could share hotels maybe two teams per hotel and could be transferred to the pitches for practice and for games. I’m sure the hotels would love to make up for lost business from last year.

Most of us love watching on football here, we love the ups and downs of the game and we love being able to go out and meet other people and have some banter similar to being back home. It’s not my whole life but it’s a big part of my life here and I miss it very much. It’s especially bad for one or two teams who were on a roll and looking to push further up the table but we all give up something when we come to live here and in this case it’s the ability of the powers that be to have half a brain.

The best we can hope for is that it’s not a long delay and we’re back on the way as soon as possible meaning that the season finishes just a little bit late. It’s now time for the Thai FA to get their thinking hats on and start putting a marketing plan together to get fans interested again in the game once we restart and get them coming back through the turnstiles. Go full on advertising, shared by all the teams and generate some excitement for when we finally do restart.

The Final Word: 10th January, 2021

Name: Phil Williams

Team supported: Samut Prakan City

Twitter: @Ajarncom

Reading the excellent contributions from the other expat fans, one of the biggest concerns seems to be how will clubs survive financially if the break becomes too long. Frankly, I don't know how half the clubs manage to survive anyway, so I have no real opinion on this. I just keep fingers crossed that all the league clubs make it through these hard times. 

On a more positive note, I'm getting more and more confident that we will see a league restart before let's say, the end of February (hopefully sooner) Although the covid numbers aren't coming down that much, they're not surging alarmingly either. I could go on about this and ask why for example, Trat is a red zone and has had just one local transmission in three days, but I won't go there.  

Once we are up and running again, I echo Jamie's thoughts that we'll see even more fairweather fans drift away from the game. They are going to be very hard to coax back. Thai football's in a dark place at the moment but then what aspect of the world isn't?

Name: Benjamin Tan

Position: TPL Deputy CEO and Director of Club Licensing

Twitter: @footballbentan

Hi Dale, thanks for the invite and it’s interesting to hear different views.

I won’t be able to comment on an official stance but can share we are already working on scenario planning including those ideas that have been mentioned by your participants including the the clustering, bubbles etc.

This planning has to be worked in tandem with the government agencies, with the latest covid situation in order to resume the games. Safety is definitely our paramount priority.

NEW!! The Tap Room: 2020

The Tap Room was a popular feature on my old website. Over the course of a week, I would invite various fans to share their views on a topic that was dominating the news, until we had built up a lively debate. Now, after a break of a few years, I'm happy to say...here is a brand new discussion:

The Tap Room: October, 2020

In these difficult and unprecedented times, what would you do to ensure a successful Thai league season from this point on?

Reply #1: 17th October, 2020
Name: Russ John
Team supported: Nakorn Ratchasima FC
Twitter: @russreport

As the TPL struggles to regain momentum after the inevitable consequences of the corona virus, maybe it's time for a reset in order to recover from a truly horrible few months.

Perhaps beyond the remit of the league’s administrators, the first priority must be to manage the return of fans. Perhaps beginning with a rise to 50% of ground capacity and thereafter, but perhaps not until next season, a return to full attendance.

The competitive nature of the League is making a great statement about how the remainder of the season could evolve. The season thus far has seen a most exciting race for the top with TPL newcomers taking on the usual protagonists. As many as five teams could be vying for the title and this is just what the TPL needs to improve its image and popularity.

The new era of TV coverage is an exciting opportunity to extend the games popularity and profile, within ASEAN and beyond. Perhaps an opportunity to "clean up" the domestic game. exists 

The usual chestnuts need to be reviewed, referee training should be extended and supported and as it seems the much vaunted VAR is here to stay, efforts should be made to speed up its decision making. On the subject of VAR, there have been issues with time taken to make decisions that has not been added after, 90 minutes, this needs to addressed. 

I personally find any kind of official abuse a real turn off (literally) and I would like to see an improvement in this regard. We need a directive to coaches to require them to control their players more robustly regarding behaviour on the pitch - particularly regarding abuse of officials. Now that the league is, potentially, in a larger shop window it is vital that it is shown in its best light.

Looking further into the future, the recent events at the PAT stadium highlights (see what I did there) a general lack of investment in football infrastructure. Ratchaburi FC has invested in a super, new, purpose built stadium and some lower league teams are making strides forward with stadium development. Perhaps some of the much hyped TV deal money could be earmarked for improvements.

Probably a non starter and requiring more imaginative and innovative thoughts than I can supply, the league needs to have a unique feature that sets it apart from other leagues if it is to compete - two 30 minute halves with the watch stopped for all stoppages, anyone?

So, to conclude, is the TPL, in its present form, doomed to lower attendances and lack of interest precipitated by the corona virus or could this be the beginning of a new dawn supported by Zense’s innovative and ambitious new ideas.

I certainly look forward to the thoughts and opinions of my fellow supporters of Thai football.

Reply #2: 18th October, 2020
Name: Jamie Pinder
Team supported: Buriram Utd
Twitter: @nangronginfo

My biggest annoyance with the restart of the season (apart from not going back to Game 1!) is the non-return of the fans. For some clubs, getting a few thousand is normal but for the better supported clubs, such as the two in Isaan, it makes a huge difference. Buriram United are doing a great job of 'social distancing' inside their own stadium but on the recent away trip to BG it was non-existent, as we all huddled together in the rain.  

After our last home game, where supporters observed the rules, I went into the town for a small drink. Tawan Daeng, that bastion of social distancing and sobriety, was so full I was offered a table outside; it was rammed. So why can't fans watch the games in bigger numbers? It's not like every stadium will be full. On 31st October, Buriram host the boys from the council estate in a game which regularly has the league's biggest gate.......open up the doors, let's have some atmosphere please.

As Russ says, the new TV deal is interesting too. We'll see how it works out but the scheduling department doesn't seem to understand the league, putting the aforementioned game at Buriram on at the same time as BU v Port. Then there are the usual suspects of VAR, huddles, Referee abuse. We've had a six month break to discuss new ideas and how to combat these awful things but nothing has changed. 

At Buriram recently there were two lengthy delays for VAR and the crowd had no idea what was happening. Once again, I refer to rugby where the referee can talk to the 4th official to agree a decision. I don't think football is ready to show replays as rugby does as that would leed to riots in the stadium, but I'd like to see the 4th official make his decision and the referee not be involved. It means there's no need for the players to harass him. 

I'd also like to see some more positive tie ups with B Teams. I've a whole list of ideas that have been discussed with the powers at Buriram. We need to show more support for Surin City, more support for the ladies team and our academy, more interaction with the Team and the fans, more fan days, maybe the odd K-Pop star appearing at half-time. When I first went to Buriram there was a lot more going on outside the stadium before the game and, I know, much of the reduction is caused by Covid, but the teams need to find ways of getting fans back as the teams are gradually allowed more fans into the stadium. 

Reply #3: 19th October, 2020
Name: Grant Aitken
Team supported: Muang Thong Utd
Twitter: @GrantMTU86

I'm in total agreement with Russ and Jamie. It's ridiculous to see life resuming up and down the country, but the football being restricted to a paltry following inside the stadiums. Subconsciously we’re suggesting that stadiums are a hot bed for COVOID transmission, and with the virus set to linger, the long-term implications will be negative to the game.   

Politically speaking, we have some heavy hitters attached to our major sides. Time for them to use their power to get the limitations lifted, and let more fans in through the gates before irreparable damage takes place. After all, they are the lifeblood of the sport.  

Credit to players, coaches and management for taking significant wage cuts to keep our beloved teams afloat. I feared there’d be a few big name casualties before the league’s resumption so I’m very thankful for that.  

However, I fear for the game at grassroots level. The youth league has been scrapped, the concept of the U23 league has been quickly forgotten and B teams are prohibited. There will be a spate of boys around 18-22 years’ old that are probably seeking a career change right now.   

As yet there are no updates on the horizon which makes me believe the FA will provide any competitive action for our teams this year. Thankfully, the schools and football clubs that do care are bounding together to put contingencies in place, despite precisely zero financial help from the FA. The future of our national team is pretty much dependent on the pride of a few top government schools and the unwavering beliefs of a handful of our football clubs.  

The league has thrown in a catalogue of surprises since its return. Much like the other guys I’m keen to see what the new TV broadcasters can do to bring our game to a wider audience. The V-League appears to be a few years behind our own standard, despite emerging talents, and the Malaysian football community must be sick to death of Johor’s financial superiority squeezing the competitive spirit out of their domestic game. A higher profile within the region can help boost our team’s coffers and make them less reliant on tyrannical club owners, which can only be a good thing.  

Reply #4: 20th October, 2020

Name: Tommie Duncan

Team supported: Port FC

Twitter: @TJRDBKK

Russ, Jamie, and Grant covered most of the bases. It really is the usual old issues that have plagued the league for years. Poor marketing, lack of a fan centric attitude among owners, the league, and the FA, and on and on. 

Getting the fans in the seats has always been difficult for some clubs and it seems the break has made it a bit harder for all clubs. I must admit will all of the nonsense floating about Port, my interest has waned significantly and I am not very excited about the restart. In addition, I think many local folks have bigger worries at the moment. 

What can be done? Well, truthfully I don't think much as long as the owners have all of the say and their own gratification and esteem is more important to them than ensuring an excellent experience for the supporters. And the league and the FA are certainly not going to step up to the plate and initiate the type of changes that need to occur to push the league forward. 

What would I like to see? Owners banned from sitting on the bench for one. Referees being a bit more free with cards when players get in their faces. Sportsmanship is still sorely lacking. Coaches and management demanding a more professional attitude from players. Diet, fitness, etc. Of course if owners aren't demanding this, then there is not a lot you can do. A "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" attitude would be nice to see at clubs as well. More focus on the league as opposed to the National team would be good as well. Of course I'd also like to see a return to 5 foreigners a side (of any nationality) so that local players have to up their game if they want to play.

I hope the new TV contract turns out well but again it all comes down to marketing.

We'll see.  

Reply #5: 21st October, 2020

Name: Phil Williams

Team supported: Samut Prakan City

Twitter: @Ajarncom

Under the current circumstances, we simply have to improve (and speed up) the communication between clubs and fans regarding away ticket allocations. Yes, I know we are only talking about 10% of 25% stadium capacities but it’s still a few hundred paying punters putting money into the coffers and Thai football needs every penny it can get right now.

Let’s take my club, Samut Prakan, as an example. For Saturday’s game at BG Pathum, our allowance of 200 tickets went on general sale at the club shop on Thursday and Friday between 5pm – 7pm (right in the middle of rush hour) I personally couldn’t get there because I was away on holiday but even had I been at home, I wouldn’t have spent 400 baht in taxi fares and hours of my time to schlep to the ground just to buy a couple of tickets. It’s far too inconvenient and it’s not just me. Many supporters don’t live near the ground and getting there during the week is too difficult for them.

Khun Phisit is one of the guys who organises coaches to take Samut Prakan fans to away games and I was speaking to him on Saturday before kick off. He said he had no opportunity to book the usual 48-seater bus because he had no idea what the ticket arrangements were – and the bus needed to be booked 72 hours in advance. Cheap bus travel – Perhaps just a 100 baht return – gives the ‘lower income supporters’ the chance to attend games. 

Khun Phisit looked around and said ‘I can’t see many of those supporters here tonight and I’m not surprised. It’s too expensive for those fans to make their own way to Pathum Thani from their homes in Samut Prakan. More crucially, they don’t know if they’ll be able to buy a ticket on the day or whether they will be all sold out. So they just don’t bother. They’ll watch the game on TV instead’

It’s sad isn’t it? Dozens of Samut Prakan fans who would love to be there, aren’t there to cheer on their team. Plus you need to factor in the money they would spend on drinks and snacks etc whilst at the stadium.

How long will it be before supporters like that – the lifeblood of Thai football – lose interest and drift away? 

To add insult to injury, I met with the Samut Prakan marketing director an hour before kick off,  as he was about to return a fistful of unsold tickets to BG Pathum. Something’s very wrong here. We need clear communication and we need a system. This isn’t directed at just Samut Prakan. I’ve read many comments on several premier club Facebook pages from disgruntled fans who are kept totally in the dark when it comes to buying tickets.

I plan to go to away games at Buriram and Ratchaburi next month, but how can you book planes, trains and automobiles and accommodation when you haven’t got the foggiest if you’ll even get a ticket?

I also heard on Saturday that 80% of the BG Pathum fans in attendance were season ticket holders. In other words, many home fans who buy tickets match by match, aren’t getting a look in. How annoying that must be when your team is top of the league and playing some champagne football. So with that in mind, I concur with the other Tap Room contributors, we need to get back to 50% capacities as soon as possible.

We have to keep the interest levels up. The new long-term TV deal was fantastic news but I don’t want to sit at home and watch matches played out in empty stadiums. I want to be there in a noisy, packed away end, proudly sporting my club colours. Let’s give as many fans as possible the chance to be there!

Reply #6: 22nd October, 2020

Name: Gian Chansrichawla

Website: thaileaguecentral.com

Twitter: @GianChansricha1

Everybody has bought up great points so far and I agree with most of it. Starting with the positive, I think the new TV deal from Zense and the ASEAN broadcast through 1PlaySports is really helping the Thai League out. We are getting a lot of interest from across ASEAN in our league which is excellent, and clubs can now plan long-term with stable TV money. 

In terms of things that need to be improved, ticketing is a big deal as Phil mentioned, especially with limited capacities. Going to football games should be made as easy as possible if we want to see attendance rise. And of course, I think it is beyond time to allow 50% of capacity. 

I want to focus specifically on one major problem in the Thai League that isn't discussed enough and needs to be addressed. That is the 'inflation' that is currently happening with regards to transfer fees and player salaries. This is something I've discussed with Grant previously and he's contributed a lot of great ideas to this. 

The main issue facing the Thai League is that there is simply too much money in it when it comes to first-team squad building. The spending splurge of Port FC's owner, followed in short order by BG Pathum, has increased the transfer fees paid for players (and arguably their wages, although that process likely started with Muangthong United's 2016 'Dream Team'). This is bad mostly because it makes our players "uncompetitive exports" - that is to say, no Japanese or Korean team would buy a Thai player if they have to pay over the odds and could acquire a better talent for much cheaper in their home country. 

Even if the Thai player is *slightly* more expensive for the same quality, it will still be a worthy investment because of the marketing and merchandising advantages. However, if domestic wages continue to inflate (while the quality of players remains the same), it is going to damage the long-term future prospects of our national team. 

On the face of it, a 'deflation' is likely what the league needed in order to curb crazy spending and keep clubs in line. However, the *way* this COVID-19 deflation has happened has been a disaster. First team spending continues to rise, with the hit all going towards grassroots football, as Grant mentioned. B-Teams no longer have a place with the new combined National League, and youth academies are being under-funded up and down the country. This isn't just bad on a football level - on a human level, this is devastating for the number of young people who are being denied the chance to chase their dreams. 

We need to hope that clubs stop spending crazy amounts on their first teams and start putting that towards their academies and facilities instead. The first step is to reduce transfer fees - Tommie's idea of expanding the foreign quota would help with this a lot, as it would increase the pool and reduce the relative value of a top Thai player. Secondly, it is good to see Buriram and Muangthong leading the way in terms of investing in youth, and Bangkok United have been suggesting that they will follow suit. Port is probably the worst in this regard, as they completely ignore their infrastructural needs and youth teams while spending exorbitant amounts of money on the first team. 

The FA first needs to re-introduce a way for B-Teams to get involved in the league system. This would be preferable to a 'U-23 league' as playing with adults is better for their development. Secondly, they need to find a way to reward teams for investing in their academies and punish teams that don't. The youth football scene is in the biggest need of help right now, and it is not being discussed enough. 

The Final Word: 23rd October, 2020

Name: Russ John

As usual, a lively debate that expresses the passion that we all have for Thai football, So here we are, a unique opportunity, given the coming onset of the Zense “Sportainment” era,  for the game we love to reset and provide an exciting package exposed to a new and wider audience.

The Tap Room participant’s comments seem to fall broadly into two themes, the fan’s experience and football and community.

So how will the game and its administrators respond. Jamie’s piece concerning returning crowds makes a good point. Whilst entertainment venues and demonstrations see hundreds of citizens bunched together with little social distancing, attendances at football venues are severely restricted. This links nicely to Phil’s point about ticket availability. We all hear stories of wrong kick off times and last minute chances to schedules. 

Tommie also bemoans the fact that team owners are more concerned with their own self gratification than providing an excellent fan experience   You have to make it easy for fans to buy tickets and attend matches - or fans will stop turning up!!

Grant’s call for the “big hitters” to use their leverage to  get things moving regarding crowd attendance is a valid one but I sometimes wonder if they really care!

There does seem to be a common theme regarding teams greater team participation within the community and their role within grass roots football. Jamie and Grant both calling for greater development  and opportunities for youngsters and more fan participation. Youth teams, team link ups with smaller teams and woman’s football all help to raise the  profile of the parent club and should be regarded as priority issues.

Regarding players, Tommie suggests that a five foreigners per side would help to raise he standards of local players and Gian argues that inflation transfer fees and player salaries could be to the detriment of club spending on academies and youth player development. Gian’s comments in particular suggests that the FAT should be looking at long term sustainability rather than short term gains.

Great effort guys, let’s hope that those in positions of power are listening and are open to change.