This issue of 'Five Asides' is a lower leagues special. Take five Thai football fans - who support teams outside the top flight, share five contentious opinions with them and let them all have their say. Nice and simple. Our panel today is Will (Pattaya Dolphins Utd), Robert (Chiang Mai FC), Phil (Samut Prakan City), Richard (Chiang Mai FC) and Svein (Udon Thani FC).
1. T1 has become very predictable and holds no interest for me. The lower leagues are far more open and therefore more entertaining.
Will: Can’t say I agree with this. When I arrived in Thailand, Pattaya Utd were in T1 and I look back on those days with great fondness. Bigger crowds, huge street parties after a big victory etc. To be honest Thai football for me is had never been about the glory, but more about a fun afternoon/evening out with some friends and a beer or two. The standard in the lower leagues is laughable, I’d love to see Pattaya Dolphins up in the top tier and some half decent opponents now and again.
Robert: Confession. I rarely watch T1. T2 has much going for it. That said, better quality football played on better pitches and with competent referees should be compelling. The most predictable aspect of T1 (other than Buriram winning everything) is how hard (and expensive) it is to stay there.
The T2 playoffs and the T3 Champions Leagues maintain fan interest until late in the season for many clubs; as I write this with eight games to go any of 10 teams in T2 could be promoted. Plus T2 gets six new teams each season – that in itself provides new challenges, opportunities and destinations. But for neutral fans some of the games could never be described as entertaining!
Phil: The Buriram dominance of T1 and the cup competitions is becoming utterly demoralising. Even Buriram fans must be becoming a little bored of beating everyone (almost everyone) week in and week out. For me, the only interest in T1 is in which three clubs will be relegated because chances are that's where I'll be travelling to next season. T2 and some of the T3 regional leagues are certainly far more open. In T2 this season, anybody can beat anybody and you only have to look at the current league table to prove it. There's no such thing as a nailed-on three points. If you're talking about 'entertaining' from a football quality point of view though, now that's pushing it a bit too far. I've sat through some right dross this season in T2.
Richard: I think like most leagues around the world, the top division is always settled between a few sides and will continue to be the same, like in the UK I believe the Championship is a much better league than the premiership as any team can beat any team and I think that’s the same in Thailand.
Svein: I have lost more and more interest in T1 in the last few years and now I barely care. I haven`t watched games other than the ones with Bangkok United since the start of VAR. I watch a lot of T2 on TV, and I have attended many games in lower leagues in the last couple of seasons. I find the lower leagues much more interesting and entertaining, even when I don`t support any of the teams I watch.
2. Fans of lower league clubs don't take themselves as seriously as their top flight counterparts and, as a result, are a lot more friendly.
Will: I can’t really comment because I haven’t seen a top tier match since Pattaya Utd we’re moved to Samut Prakan! I can say the Dolphin’s ‘Ultras’, named the ‘Dangerous Family’ are the least dangerous family who you wish to come across. Genuinely lovely bunch and all the familiar faces back from 2016 when I first arrived still go to all the home matches.
Robert: I don’t buy this. Lower league fans at many clubs take themselves equally seriously (even the hardcore fans at Rajpracha!) and take great pride in their club. There are just far fewer of us, so we are less visible and make less noise. Fans were always welcoming during our brief 2019 flirtation with T1.
Phil: I think it still varies from club to club, regardless of whether they are in T1 or lower. This season I've been to Uthai Thani, where the visiting fans were showered with snacks and free tickets, and then to Suphanburi, where the home fans couldn't even bring themselves to say hello or give us a thumbs up. Some provinces are just friendlier and more welcoming than others.
Richard: At the last count I had done 42 different away grounds in Thailand across 3 leagues following Chiang Mai, Ive always found The “home” fans of the other team great, I would say the best Foreign fans were The old Phuket FC fans, the mushy peas, the best Thai fans were Bangkok FC, if I had to say one set that were a bit up themselves it would have to be the Foreign Fans at Port. Friendly but always trying to say how better they are than you as a team.
Svein: This will probably vary from club to club. I will say there`s a larger part of the fans who don`t take it too seriously in lower leagues, and go to games mostly to have fun. But for fans of teams who get relegated from T1, it`s much more serious, as I see it, because they want to get back up again as soon as possible. When you are used to T1, you might not like life in T2. But there are lots of friendly fans in lower leagues, and it`s easier to spot them as there is not too many fans at games. Of course, there are many friendly fans in T1 too, but the results are more important as they want to stay there.
3. As long as my team are well run and relatively successful, I have no real desire to see them in the top flight.
Will: See section 1! I’d love to be up top again, especially after the journey over the past few years.
Robert: It is my club. So it is also allowed to be badly run and unsuccessful. I have no expectations. Only hope. Ideally, of course, the club should be both well run and successful enough to compete in any League. I would as happily see them in the top flight as I would competing in T3. Both offer different experiences!
Phil: I don't care what league you're in, fans want to see a winning team. I would rather be winning games in T2 (even if it wasn't necessarily challenging for promotion) than losing games in T1. Relegation seasons are miserable. I've thoroughly enjoyed this season in the second tier with so many new towns and stadiums to visit. I think for a fan like me, who loves to mix football with travel, T2 is far more fun.
After three seasons of enduring those crappy views at Bangkok United and Chonburi, and the ridiculously heavy-handed security at Port, etc I was ready for a change of scenery. And also, when you're in the second tier, there's an exciting 'refresh' every season as three clubs come down from T1 and three come up from the regional leagues. So over 30% of the clubs are 'new' compared to the previous season.
Richard: I certainly want CMFC back in the Top league and Hopefully now BG have gone it may be able to happen in the coming seasons.
Svein: To go to T1 means going to a different world. Much more money is needed, everything will be more strict and professional, there will be VAR which ruins football for fans, so lower leagues are OK. It would of course be great to see how UDFC would do in T1, and see how the fans reacted, if the fans would change or if they would see the games the same way as when they were in lower leagues.
4. T3 should revert to two divisions - North and South - with automatic promotion for the top 2 in each, and T4 should replace the current semi-pro league.
Will: I wouldn’t be averse to the idea - would give a few more exciting away locations to travel to than we have at the moment!
Robert: So much to discuss here. But if it isn’t broken don’t try to fix it. I like the T3 six league regional set up. It seems to work well and helps to keep costs to a manageable level. The Champions League with two leagues of six is both an incentive to the clubs during the regular season and a guarantee of crowds and some drama at the end of the season. The problem is that some 80 teams start the season and only three are promoted. And there are some successful, well-supported and well-financed (by whatever means) clubs in T3.
There is a bigger issue over whether the number of professional clubs is sustainable. But if there are owners willing to fund the clubs then good luck to them. Just two T3 divisions would leave some 40 plus existing clubs split between a T4 and T5. Maybe two T4s structured in the same way as the two T3 divisions? And that is before the PTT Lubricants semi pro league which seems like a sensible bridge between the Thai Amateur and the Thai Leagues. T3 seems to be the least of the Thai League’s problems. It works. Some strong teams have been promoted, have been successful in T2 and have risen quickly to T1.
Phil: No, I love the way it is, with 12 teams from 6 different leagues going into the play offs and maintaining their interest in the season for a bit longer. It's so wonderfully chaotic and convoluted. It's so wonderfully Thai. My wife made the fatal mistake of asking me to explain the T3 promotion system a few weeks ago and it was less than 20 seconds before her eyes glazed over. In fact, I challenge you to explain it to the most passionate of football fans without their eyes glazing over. As for the T4 league, I have no opinion on this. I haven't really studied it. Five teams in a league is a bit shit though isn't it? Oh, not this lot again!
Richard: My best time watching football in Thailand were the regional league days, and in them days CMFC were getting 10-15,000 fans at home and 2-300 at away games. Great times. But I think for my local team like Mae-Jo 2 leagues would be much better. Rather than the x-amount there is now.
Svein: We had 2 leagues in T3 until the pandemic paused the 2020 season. During the break T3 and T4 merged into one division with 6 leagues. I would prefer a return to how it was, but I can`t see it happening, as the future of Thai football don`t look bright. It was too expensive for teams in the old T3, and several teams dropped out during the 3 seasons they had 2 leagues. They didn`t even manage to fill the 2 leagues in the first season, It was supposed to be 32 (2x16) teams, but they only had 29 in 2017.
In 2019 they were down to 27. They lost teams, but never tried to fill the leagues, so the whole thing had to crash at some point.
5. The lower leagues should receive far more media coverage and negotiate their own TV deal.
Will: Attendances are so low, I can’t see much desire for TV companies to be rushing to thrash out a decent deal for the clubs. The clubs would benefit more by boosting their own attendances and income by any other means possible. Don’t ask me how though…
Robert: I am going to go off on a mazy solo run here – but without any chance of scoring! So is the AIS deal good for Thai football? Does showing every game live maintain interest or keep fans away from live games? T2 feels fortunate to the TV coverage that it has. Realistically how many people want to watch Ranong host Rajpracha? In T3 and the PTT Lubricants League clubs rely on their own live video and commentary. Some do it better than others! Maybe I am missing the point but I cannot see anyone coming in with a pot of gold offering more media coverage and a better tv deal.
It would be good to see some games broadcast internationally or for the live streams to carry a multilingual commentary. I can only speak for CMFC but we are bringing in fans from Japan, Korea, Burundi, Serbia etc….offering something more than a Thai commentary would be very welcome. Or even just a non-Thai commentary for the match highlights.
Where the clubs should have freedom is in determining their preferred matchday and start time. No one wants a 17.30pm kick off on any day of the week. But the clubs can also be their own worst enemy. Chiang Mai has a large number of foreign followers. Yet the club still refuses to read the team sheet out in English just once before kick-off. It is simple things that give fans a sense of being a welcome part of a club.
Phil: Oh I'm just happy to see T2 get the coverage it does. The fact I can watch a match live or view edited highlights keeps me more than satisfied. I've long given up on trying to work out how Thai lower league clubs survive financially. I just keep my fingers crossed that somehow they all keep going.
Richard: Its always going to be the case that only the top teams get the revenue and the publicity unfortunately.
Svein: I think it would benefit Thai football if T1 and T2/T3 were broadcasted on different platforms. It would then be competition amongst the rights holders, and we might get programs (highlights, interviews, discussions etc) in addition to only streams of games. Now there is absolutely nothing!
No games from T3 are shown on TV except for the play-off, so only 12 of the 70+ teams can be watched other places than Facebook/YouTube. If more games were shown on TV, the interest from fans would surely be bigger, and the league would also be more interesting for sponsors.
Please note: The opinions expressed in this article are those of each individual and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the blog. Thank you.
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