7/7/14 What needs to be done to improve the officiating in the TPL?
Reply #1: Monday
Name: Roger Smith
Team supported: Buriram United
Twitter: @Binnsy1
To improve the standard of referees I believe there are several ways that could be done to assist the standard of the match officials.
1/ Improve their training, physical and mentally.
2/ Create an Elite group of match day officials who are full time employees of FAT. When members of this group are not refereeing they could visit groups of up and coming referees and have them carry out training evenings.
3/ Create regional referees groups who meet and discuss their problems that they have and forward these on to a Referee chief who would be responsible for replying.
4/Have match day assessors who meet the officials after the game and point out where he considers the officials could improve and also where they done well. Send a report to the Chief of Referees.
5/Send referees to all clubs and teach all players the rules of the game. Clubs with youth teams should also teach all youths the laws of the game.
There is however the Thai culture of losing face to deal with as in the years I have watched football here I have never witnessed a assistant referee go against the referee ie give a penalty when he has a clear view. In yesterday’s game at Police the ball was clearly over the line but the assistant never gave it maybe he did not want to overrule the referee? Or maybe he missed it.
Reply #2: Tuesday
Name: Del Spafford
Team supported: Army United
Twitter: @DelSpaff
I would agree with Roger. Most of his points above seem fairly sound.
I definitely agree with the training aspect of referees. I would like to see them receive more support for the work they do.
The standard is different here and things do need to change but I would like to see the players and coaches get behind the refs instead of bemoaning them all the time. It hard to do that sometimes especially when you're playing against Muang Thong but I think it would help.
Regional referees is interesting and I think this would be useful but do we know that Malaysian or Vietnamese refs would be any better.
The best thing for me though would be to encourage more retiring players to pull on the black jersey. They already have the fitness, would likely be respected as ex pros and know how the game is played.
Reply #3: Wednesday
Name: Dominick Cartwright
Team supported: The Thai Port Authority, Thai Port, Singhtarua and whatever we will be called next year.
Twitter: dominick@dominick_1975
I think first we have to recognise that every league every season will have this story, "What is to be done about all the terrible decisions of our terrible referees this year?" All about how they are worst we've ever seen and this will be followed by 5 examples of poor decisions. The paradox is if a referee is decent he goes largely unnoticed, if he makes one mistake he's the devil's lovechild.
Of course in Thailand some of the refereeing is dire, Roger has made some good points improving fitness, more support for training and having people assess the performance of referees after each game. I have always thought a review system to clamp down on diving would work. In real time diving is tough to spot on a video replay it can be a lot easier to see, post match bans for blatant diving would help the game not just the TPL.
I think the spectre of corruption always hangs over referees here when decisions go against a team because there is a history of corrupt referees the immediate default position is we had no chance the ref was against us. While watching the Chiang Rai v Port game this weekend a couple of fans were bemoaning the fact we were not given a penalty and saying we were cheated, I had to remind them Chiang Rai had a very debatable goal disallowed and if the ref was bent he could have easily given that against us.
I think the selective use of foreign referees is a good idea I'm sure some of them are just as corruptible as our refs here but their use shows up some of the faults the Thai League takes as standard. Like some of the games in the champions league when the TPL players all freeze and shout at the ref to make a decision, the other team happily continues playing the advantage. Yoshida Toshimitsu admitted he was offered a bribe in the Buriram v Army 2012 Cup final, would this have been revealed most Thai referees? understandably no. A couple of FIFA refs Prachya Permpanich and Pirom Anprasert both had the courage to criticise the top clubs and the FAT manipulating games to quote,
"Every one involved has to ask themselves how much they know about a referee's job. What are they exactly working for? Is it their own interest? Right now referees have to accept these 'ugly assignments' (instructions from authorities). They don't want to, but if they refuse, that will cost them more than they can bear. They have to do it for their kids, their wife, for their living."
Prion added a chilling note to illustrate what Thai football is up against:
"You either obey or you're out. We're heading in to the dark ages."
(from The Fifth Official: Thai Football's Referees by Matt Riley)
Good article but I would disagree with one point that Matt makes using foriegn refs undermines all Thai refs. I would say it highlights the problems we have in the TPL and in some games helps take the pressure off them and stops fans talking about bribery as much. We live in the real world where corruption is still a problem and a selective use of foreign refs is a good temporary aid to improving the situation. The probable promotion decider in 2013 Bangkok FC v Port had Malaysian ref no one knew him there was less speculation about him being biased, I think he had a tough job to do on a cut up water logged pitch but he did a fairly decent one.
It's a difficult job but good Refs need to be paid more and they need more support from the FAT, the clubs and the fans, having a good referee helps everyone. And call me an old fashioned stick in the mud if you will, but perhaps banning referees who a plant bombs in their boss' office, no need to shoot them just banning them would be ok (see Thanom Borikut).
Reply #4: Thursday
Name: Malcolm Imray
Team supported: n/a
Twitter: @BKKFootballBlog
The previous posters have summed up the refereeing situation pretty well. I'd just like to add that the players, coaches and various hanger-oners at clubs should treat the match officials with greater respect even though they do make some bewildering decisions at times.
I understand that football can be passionate and at times frustrating, but haranging and physically threatening the referee isn't right. This behaviour fires up the supporters and at times it's sparked violence between rival fans.
Generally in the TPL, there are enough sensible people around to step in if anything kicks off. However, in the lower leagues where there is often more staff than spectators, I sometimes worry that the referee will get seriously beaten up. We've had the infamous Nakhon Pathom gun incident and, a time when the referee had to run for his life after being chased by an irate Rayong United player. There have also been a couple of incidents with the match officials spending six hours cowering in the locker room while the baying mob outside, often led by the club owner, wait to be dispersed.
The FAT/TPL need to give the referees more backing and punish the offenders with lengthy bans rather than handing out fines which will be paid by the clubs.
Reply #5: Friday
Name: Brian Enever
Team supported: Chonburi
Twitter: n/a
Some very good and valid points from everybody so far that I think can be put into two distinct categories.
1. Lack of respect for the match officials.
2. inconsistent standard and quality of refereeing and officials in general.
Lack of respect has become a major problem everywhere over the years but it seems particularly bad in Thailand, both from players and club officials alike. Malcolm highlighted just how bad it can get but we all see it week in week out at every match we go to. Roger makes some very good points about how to improve this and I think the only thing I could add to this would be for the FAT to introduce a clear Respect Program on the conduct that all clubs, players, fans and match officials must adhere to, with strong penalties for offenders. Maybe producing an end of season league table of the worst offenders might shame them into improving.
Inconsistent refereeing has always been a big problem with, as Dominick says, corruption never far from peoples lips in some of the worst refereeing decisions. As Dell says, retiring players should be encouraged to become match officials, but that doesn't happen anywhere in the world unfortunately.
Yes, all officials need quality coaching and training to improve and become more consistent and that's got to be a priority but I'd like to suggest we go further than that.
This might be a bit radical but I'd like to see:
1. All match officials should be full time.
2. I'd like to see the four match officials stay together (say for a full season) as a team, all qualified as referees, and rotating their jobs for each match. They would, I believe, quickly work more closely together, understand each other more, help each other more and become more consistent in their decision making.
3. Every week each 'team' of officials should then review the video of other matches and discuss/compare with those officials any inconsistencies they see. I believe this would help all officials to understand how they all view and deal with different situations, bringing more consistency between all officials.
4. A fully qualified and experienced assessor should not only assess the officials at each match but view the match video with them to highlight the problems (and good points) that they've seen.
5. The teams of officials should visit all TPL clubs on a regular basis to discuss any issues, from both sides.
One of the biggest complaints, worldwide, is not just the quality of referees but the inconsistencies between different referees operating within the same league. I think something along these lines would not only improve Thai referees standards but remove some of those inconsistencies as well.
Reply: The Final Word: Saturday
Name: Roger Smith
Team supported: Buriram Utd
Twitter: @Binnsy1
It appears from the response to the topic that it is something that we all want to see improvement in the standard of match officials
Inconsistency, Respect &Corruption appear to be mentioned by most in the room.
There seemed to a bit of confusion about my comment about regional Referee’s by this I meant have officials from all over Thailand Northern Thailand, Southern Thailand, and Eastern Thailand etc Having seen some Foreign Referees in the AFC and those brought over for so called big match’s in the TPL are not any better than those we have here in Thailand.
I like the idea of having teams of Referee’s. They could have a TPL game one week, a Division 1 game the next, and a Regional game the next altering who is the Ref and who is the Assistant. Travel to and from the game together.
Also a point was raised with regards to retiring Ref’s I would like to see them being used as Mentors for new/Junior Refs.Maybe they could also be employed by FAT as match assessors.
Respect also seemed to come to the table and rightly so but you have to earn respect and that is very hard to achieve when there is corruption which seems to be at every level of football in Thailand. How do you stop corruption in the game?
At the end of the day without referee’s there would be no football no matter what standard they are.
Whose round is it for the beers?
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